“My argument as a writer would be: the better you understand somebody from the inside, the more powerful you are. You can decide to fight, you can decide to not fight, but if you understand somebody from the inside and not as a cartoon or as a projection of yourself, then you know better how to stop them. The problem is we tend to misunderstand that process as forgiveness. If I try to understand you, I forgive you; that’s not it.”
-George Saunders, episode 444 of Talk Easy with Sam Fragoso
George Saunders has long been hailed as one of the great short story writers of our time. Of his 1996 debut CivilWarLand in Bad Decline, Zadie Smith called Saunders “a prophecy and the voice of the American berserk.” Thirty years later, he’s still turning to the page in search of answers.
We sit today to discuss his latest novel, Vigil (6:25), why he felt drawn to this story circling the afterlife (9:55), and his own brush with death in the early 2000s (12:40). Then, Saunders reflects on a life-changing moment in Singapore (20:45), his instinct toward peacemaking (25:00), and what he makes of this fraught moment in America (27:00).
On the back-half, we talk about his 2016 reporting for The New Yorker (40:00), the formation of Saunders’ signature literary style (43:00), and the idea of inevitable occurrences (52:00). To close, Saunders revisits his 2020 short story “Love Letter” (1:11:00), looks toward the future (1:15:00), and shares a tribute to his wife, Paula (1:17:00).
Thoughts or future guest ideas? Email us at talkeasypod@gmail.com.
Watch this conversation on YouTube:
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Show-notes:
- Read George Saunders’ new novel Vigil.
- Find his previous books: Liberation Day, A Swim in a Pond in the Rain, Lincoln in the Bardo, Tenth of December, CivilWarLand in Bad Decline.
- Subscribe to his Substack Story Club.
- Read his short story “Love Letter” in The New Yorker.
- Listen to our previous talks with George Saunders in 2021 and 2022.
- For more, hear Zadie Smith, Ocean Vuong, and Margaret Atwood.
- Order your Talk Easy mug in cream and navy or our vinyl record with Fran Lebowitz.
Illustrations by Krishna Shenoi. Reference photograph by Simran Malik.
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